Curse

Metanoia · Mar 14, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by obastable

...[snip]...In PvE, skill is measured differently. Presently the game only offers two options to measure your skill in a mission, and that is the main objective and the bonus objective. If A-Net wanted to, they could also implement a level of completeness based on mob clearance (89/100 for instance), or how quickly a Guild team completed the mission. Various other aspects could be used as a measure of skill as well...[snip]...

Anal retentiveness regarding the name aside...

They're actually implementing something along those lines in GW:Factions.

Edit: *Shakes fist at LoBo's \/andetta* >:0

Edit2 aka witty comeback: Aha! I said "tend not to have jobs" not "don't have jobs". So, nyah!

Ensign · Mar 14, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

The only way to make "PvE" something rewardable would be to make it competitive, ala a race. Then it'd really be a PvP game that just looks like a PvE game. That might be where they're going in factions.

In any case direct PvP is a much better advertising vehicle for a wide variety of reasons that have been touched on already. People don't want to watch you pwn Charr. They want to see you pwn someone else. Once you realize that cash tournaments are just gigantic advertisements it's pretty obvious how these things are going to go down.

Peace,
-CxE

Emu · Mar 14, 2006, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by castanaveras

I don't care about the $100,000. But i really want Anet to give us PvE'er a special emote like the one in pvp.

this is something I'd like to see, maybe have multiple tiers. For example have pve landmarks: completing all bonuses, completing all SF quests, completing all titan quests, etc. Then give a hierarchy of vanity emotes depending on how many of the goals the plauer has accomplished.

Why is it that pve'ers must contend with elitist pvp'ers demeaning the aspect of the game they enjoy in so many threads?

Avarre · Mar 14, 2006, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by olydog

LOL..ok..so my theory is getting bashed pretty hard..I don't know too many people with every skill AND elite for both primary AND secondery professions..if you've done that then let me know..cuz that would be an accomplishment!!!!

I have that on mesmer, and no, its not an accomplishment.

PvP requires constantly adapting teamwork. PvE is route memorization. Wonder which one actually takes skill.

Close topic!

Metanoia · Mar 14, 2006, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Emu, in PvP it has a purpose. Higher rank emotes show that you have experience in PvP where your actual characters come and go like the wind. It's the equivalent of levels/vanity items in PvE, they show how long you've been playing aka how experienced at PvE you are.

If you consider rank-flashing "showing off" then you're either still playing the game through and/or wearing drok's or you're a hypocrite.

Siren · Mar 14, 2006, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

That might be where they're going in factions.

I was thinking the same thing. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the favor system we're going to see in Factions could introduce painfully dangerous team-based enemies. If one faction has control, for example, then on those huge battlefields we've been hearing about, that faction has some behemoth lumbering toward a group of NPCs. I'm envisioning Factions to be a mix of PvE and PvP, and if we see those types of situations, then surely the PvE players will be able to gain some type of glory if they manage to bring that sucker down.

CyberNigma · Mar 14, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

I think it could be done. First you have to put aside any pvp-only players (55hp monk comments) as they probably know about as much about PvE as PvE-only players know about PvP (even though both sides think they know more). There are quite a few popular sportds that are competitive against an environment. I used to surf quite a bit in Hawaii. I watch skateboard competitions. There are motorcycle competitions on where a score is kept based on individual performance. Golf (if you'll call it a sport) is not a race or PvP where they are directly going up against each other.

I am not sure how the season would be set up, but the championships aren't too tough. You have pre-designed areas specific to that tournament in which nobody has seen before. Each team (guild) then has to complete certain tasks, getting points for speed, kills, losing for deaths, etc etc etc.. Too many people are thiniing it has to be individual-based. It can be guild based (someone said it's called Guild Wars). Well there are many , many PvE guilds.

Who knows the season could consist of new areas released every week for a week that are only accessible by guilds or what-not. Don't argue the specifics here because they are just brainstorming ideas. In essence, it could all be done. I think someone got it right earlier though in that the PvE side is just a method of getting money into the game. I think from the get-go PvP has been their favorite. I mean c'mon. If people really watch golf then surely someone would watch a PvE team race through a mission or something..

P.S. I do agree with the possibility that Ensign and Siren may have something as far as Factions goes. We'll see.. It could be alliances or something that win over time instead of individual guilds.

Mandy Memory · Mar 14, 2006, 04:33 AM // 04:33

For PVE to get a prize given to the best player...there has to be a best player. That means you have to beat everyone else in some way. Which means that you are up against other players...making it PVP.

Zui · Mar 14, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

PvE is static.

PvP is dynamic.

Even if you introduce new PvE content, give it a week and everyone will know the quickest and easiest way of completing it(toumbs is an example of that). PvE enemies do not adapt.

PvP even if the maps remain the same, the other players you face(equivelent to "monsters") don't always have the exact same skill set, execute skills in an extremely predictable manner, behave the same predictable ways to your skills, or follow the exact same path/stand in the exact same location. Players adapt.

From what I've heard of the elite and challenege missions in factions, it seems PvErs will, however, have their day. But with significantly harder PvE content that may actualy require teamwork and an understanding of the game mechanics(I've lost count of how many w/mos i see running around in full knights armor, refusing to beleive the non-stacking description on every single piece of it).

olydog · Mar 14, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Good comments....I totally agree...how do they determine the "winner" in pve...as it stands there isn't a way to determine this..so off to PvP land I must go!

For now I'll just stick to my "mindless" PvE playing...waiting patiently for Factions to come out...and my accomplishments have always been helping guildies finish a mission..or get an elite skill..or buy some nice 15k armor. After all it's just a game....

audioaxes · Mar 14, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

practically all gaming competitions is player versus player, nobody wants to watch you fight some stupid npc, let alone pay someone 100k to do it

olydog · Mar 14, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Again..who watches people play these tournements? Do you?(audioaxes)

Mandy Memory · Mar 14, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

I watch those...I watched the GWWC a few times actually...especially the ending matches.

Y.T. · Mar 14, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by olydog

LOL..ok..so my theory is getting bashed pretty hard..I don't know too many people with every skill AND elite for both primary AND secondery professions..if you've done that then let me know..cuz that would be an accomplishment!!!!

no big feat actually.... for primary and all 2ndries opened - can be but its not so hard as well...

i can understand that its extremely hard to reward pve players somehow - pvp players have their rank system, mb some sort of pve rank can be invented anytime soon

not sure how it can be done actually - mb total exp on this account and how many times u finished any mission or smth...
of cos rank system isnt perfect and alot of pvp-only ppl who's making fun of pve players are ignorant rude noobs, not familiar with chars they're playing.

f/ex: team arenas last week:
pvp-player1: what kind of necro are u?
me: tainted and...
pvp1: tainted cant be ne/mes u noob stfu get lost *curses ignorant pve morons*
me: why so?
pvp1: 'cos all tainted in pvp are ne/ele u noob *repeats all regular curses*...

do i have to mention that he was rank 8 or smth like that with this animation or its too obvious lol

but o well not like i care

Sparks Dawnbringer · Mar 14, 2006, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Well, to be honest you are both right. PvP and PvE should both be supported. I don't enjoy PvP, I did it for a while but found it to be just mind less killing. Yes it takes skill and so does PvE, find and kill all 12 bosses in Sorrows Furnace if you think PvE is easy. I like the adventure of seeing what is behind the closed door. And yes I would not mind if they generasted some random mobs sometimes so it was different every time. But I have to say that the first time I assended a character I was disapointed. Experience points after level 20 just don't mean much. If we got a special emote or something it would be nice. And 5 characters through the Ring of Fire and what do I get a few more quests. Great but I think I worked just as hard on my characters as the PvP players. My skills are just different and my interests are just different. And even if the game is called Guild Wars there should be a place for the rest of us who actually paid for the game too. Making one side more important than the other is a mistake. I don't care too much about the money I see that as a publisity stunt. But I am tired of the PvP players getting every thing nerfed for the PvE people. And they do seem to get special treatment and they do seem to cry the loudest. But as far as I know all the special things are for PvP why can't some of them be created for PvE too.

Corinthian · Mar 14, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

PvE = money, items and skillpoints, so you can unlock everything for your PvP only character, or make your PvE character good enough for PvP.

If you don't do PvP you're only playing about 5% of the whole game. I didn't pay 45 euros for that. Nobody cares if you beat monsters who don't care if they lose. Everybody is interested in defeating real, thinking people who have feelings.

Duly Thankful · Mar 14, 2006, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Guild Wars has been developed carefully enough to hold the interest of many different types of players. From the most elitist of PvP to people like me, purely casual gamers who just want to log in and play for fun. Think of it as a pair of tights - one size fits all! If people on these forums were a little more tolerant of others, we would get more constructive and less destructive criticism. Alas, I don't see that happening within the next thousand years...

I personally do not believe that PvP is 95% of the game. I don't even believe it is the desired end result for the majority of people who play it. But to each his own. I tried PvP in arenas (manic but fun for a short while), and about six months ago I even tried GvG. It was hilarious, but only as a one-off (see http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=66425 if you don't believe me). I much prefer to just go out and do a bit of gentle farming or get a group of henchies and see how long it takes to kill every npc in Mineral Springs. I may go help a guild mate or take one of my lesser characters through a mission or two, depending on how I feel. For me the attraction is that I have the choice to do these things. After all, if I want to have abuse screamed at me, I can go to a football match rather than try PvP.

Factions should be interesting for both PvE and PvP. How interesting we won't know until it comes out, but you can count me in - I will definately be there, ambling along at my own pace and enjoying myself thoroughly!

Sagius Truthbarron · Mar 14, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

People shouldn't get special benefits for not playing certain parts of the game. All PvP players do PvE - if you want 12,500 dollars that badly (yes, its 8 people getting 100,000 dollars, not 1 person) I think you can compete with other people for it.

There is no difference between PvE and PvP but strategy and advancement. If you aren't good enough to compete against other people (That is, to PvP) then you don't deserve a chance to win 100,000 dollars, do you?

PvE and PvP are the same games. Stop adding something to it that its not.

I have never seen so much jealousy, strife, and demands comming from any gaming community other than those who come from hardcore, classic MMORPGs who come to a game that doesn't cater to their every demand.

fallot · Mar 14, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

I think it could be done. First you have to put aside any pvp-only players (55hp monk comments) as they probably know about as much about PvE as PvE-only players know about PvP (even though both sides think they know more).

People dont jump into PvP the first time they play the game. Every accomplished PvP player has spent a long time in the PvE gameworld whether it was for the experience (first time) or for subsequent unlocking of skills. We haven't had faction forever either, before that everyone was forced to play though the campaign for unlocks.

While its safe to say that someone who only plays PvE knows next to nothing about PvP, the opposite is not true.

Kawai · Mar 14, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

How bout something like a PVE ladder where groups or guilds can be sent to a map and then have to defend vs waves of ai... it gets harder and different groups showup so no farming n stuff like that. There would be hex removal , enchantment removal with these ai that come in waves. This is also shows a teams true skill to adapt to any situation. Teams or guilds that get past the most waves are ranked on the ladder.. i think this was introduced already or mayb i read it somewhere(factions?). Then again players are competing against eachother on the ladder... but doing it by killing ai lol